Time |
Nickname |
Message |
00:10
🔗
|
ez |
Senji: enterprise grade backups are entirely different price range, yea |
00:10
🔗
|
ez |
the 100PB number is a bit arbitrary, as it assumes a lot of redundancy the system being super unreliable by itself |
00:11
🔗
|
ez |
Senji: if we just assume 100% reliability its still something to the tune of 20pb. IA estimate is $2M/PB/eternity. |
00:12
🔗
|
ez |
so we're talking about 40M $ in terms of raw market cost for iabak |
00:14
🔗
|
Senji |
I think our figures work out closer to $1M/PB/etermity; but.... |
00:14
🔗
|
ez |
the eternity thing is the keyword here, as it assumes constant rotation of failing media |
00:15
🔗
|
ez |
tapes dont last that long. |
00:15
🔗
|
ez |
eternity figures simply assume cost of storage gets cheaper over time (15%, at ever slightly decaying rate matching current sigmoid trend) |
00:15
🔗
|
Senji |
We still achieve 90% recovery from tapes written in the 1960s and not stored by idiots :-D |
00:16
🔗
|
Senji |
(Data recovery and transcription is our _main_ business, archiving is a more recent secondary thing) |
00:16
🔗
|
ez |
but yea, i can see how tapes could definitely have an edge |
00:16
🔗
|
ez |
then again, thats modern super-dense tapes |
00:16
🔗
|
ez |
which kinda push the limitis same way hard drives do |
00:16
🔗
|
ez |
floppies from the 60s can be read by hand and magnetic probe |
00:17
🔗
|
Senji |
Our $25/TB figure is based on last generation tapes and updating them every two generations |
00:18
🔗
|
Senji |
We have some hand-built hardware for reading 5-track VAX tapes that has to be lovingly operated every few years when one of our customers finds a box at the back of warehouse somewhere :-D |
00:18
🔗
|
ez |
Senji: $25/TB is not bad at all |
00:18
🔗
|
ez |
thats definitely very competetive compared to jurry rigged consumer hw |
00:19
🔗
|
ez |
i mean $10/TB is roughly the price you get a used 1/2TB drives for |
00:19
🔗
|
ez |
and thats used drives, which definitely have far more reliability issues compared to tape |
00:20
🔗
|
Senji |
I think thats cheaper than I can get them here in the UK :-D |
00:21
🔗
|
ez |
Senji: so youre saying the tapes are fairly cheap on their own |
00:21
🔗
|
ez |
one needs just super expensive gear to read/write those? |
00:22
🔗
|
Senji |
And you either need really expensive robots or lots of man hours |
00:22
🔗
|
Senji |
Both of our robots are second hand and still cost six figures of dollars |
00:22
🔗
|
ez |
theres no need for real librarian robot |
00:22
🔗
|
ez |
just one which takes pile of tapes, take one, put in recorder, pull it, throw on another pile |
00:23
🔗
|
ez |
no need for random access as usual tapebots do |
00:23
🔗
|
Senji |
We don't keep most of our tapes in the robots; but it saves a lot of time being able to shove them in once a week rather than every few hours |
00:24
🔗
|
Senji |
We have little baby 10-18 tape robots for transcription work; but that's often like 50GB/tape so even so an operator has to change the robot every few hours |
00:24
🔗
|
ez |
yea |
00:24
🔗
|
ez |
i can see viability only if the tape is 1TB+ |
00:24
🔗
|
ez |
preferably to the tune of 10TB |
00:24
🔗
|
ez |
50GB is laughable, its cheaper to go optical unless that tape costs few cents each |
00:24
🔗
|
Senji |
We're using 1TB tapes for our cheaper clients and 4TB tapes for our prestige client :-D |
00:25
🔗
|
ez |
and that 1TB costs $25? |
00:25
🔗
|
ez |
i can p much imagine that in raw manufacturing cost, but tape vendors tend to charge insane markups |
00:25
🔗
|
ez |
the market being overspecialized and all |
00:26
🔗
|
Senji |
I don't know if the $25 figure is for the 1TB or 4TB tapes (plus operator time to write them) |
00:26
🔗
|
Senji |
I just happened to be in a conversation with my boss the other day where he was saying one of our competitors on a bid was taking the piss asking for $100 ! |
00:26
🔗
|
ez |
the jukebox bot can be rigged for fairly cheap |
00:27
🔗
|
ez |
its really just two piles, or even human could do it if the tapes are 1TB+ |
00:27
🔗
|
ez |
its just 20000 tapes |
00:28
🔗
|
ez |
Senji: yea, i've been far from ent ops for few years now |
00:28
🔗
|
ez |
but back then, those tapes costed arms and leg |
00:28
🔗
|
ez |
and those were like 100-400GB |
00:28
🔗
|
Senji |
Oh eek, it's half past midnight, I should be asleep :-D |
00:48
🔗
|
Somebody2 |
Interesting conversation, thanks! |
05:18
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05:18
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10:10
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10:18
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11:13
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22:00
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22:06
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